Wow(.com)… That’s Not Cool… :P
http://www.wow.com/2010/02/17/encrypted-text-the-art-of-the-gank/
I’ll admit, after reading this article, I was a bit taken aback… THIS is why everyone hates rogues!
Here is one of our own: a prominent blogger on a prominent WoW-outlet blog, condoning lowbie-ganking.
“Don’t neglect to kill lower-level players either, drilling a healthy respect for the opposing faction into them early will make them more likely to PvP when they’re fully grown.”
Update: In the comments, the articles author Chase Christian, tried to backpedal a bit by saying:
“One line about killing lowbies and everyone assumes I’m talking about wrecking level 15′s in Ashenvale? I mentioned flying mounts most of the time, I guess lowbies all have access to those too.”
Maybe you should have said that then, sir, because guess what the ASSUMPTION is going to be when you just say that first statement as a seperate thought unto itself… HMMMM??
Anyways, you can try to call me a carebear, but I’m no pacifist… I love killing Hordies as much as the next guy, but rogues get a bad name for JUST this reason… going around whooping on players 20-30 levels (or MORE!) lower then themselves and then camping their bodies until they give up and log or rez at a local graveyeard, (at which point the very dishonorable will know where that graveyard is and try to gank ‘em again…)
ROFLPWND! Ya lowbie NUBCAKE!
Let me just state for the record – I love dueling and PVP… I also like world PVP, (ie. you entered a zone in which you flag PVP, you KNOW I am going to try to kill you). I personally have never rolled a PVP server, so I can’t speak to the frustrations low-level players face in being ganked repeatedly while just trying to level, but as has been pointed out many times on forums and comments, you roll a PVP server, you should PROBABLY be ready to PVP?
At the same time, however, what I am referring to is the killing of an opponent that has no chance of winning or escape… this type of ganking boils down to nothing more than digital bullying. Rogues that behave in this specific manner have no honor. It also gives rogues that, while dirty and tricksy in a fair fight, still might have a code of ethics that prohibit the killing of the innocent.
/2cents
[UPDATE: As of the posting of this write-up, this Encrypted Text post has gotten over 190 comments, ranging from QQ, rogue hate and ganking protests/support... easily the most commented article of the day for WoW.com. Needless to say, if the author wanted a reaction to his point, he certainly got it.]
I am afraid Chase managed to open his mouth and insert his foot about down to his stomach with that post.
I agree with you, the behavior he was “condoning” is EXACTLY why rogues are often referred to as the “ganker” class.
Come on folks whats with all the carebearing?
My god, a rogue ganking people? god forbid the fact!
The latest expansions (TBC & WoTLK) have really sucked all the hatred and tribalism out of Alliance vs Horde and quite frankly its a sad day.
On PvP realms I see people from different factions waving at each other, hell even helping each other down mobs. Being an old school Vanilla player who enjoyed the rivalry and open world PvP (epic battles in Hillsbrad) it just sad to see that both factions seem to have lost their identity.
With Cataclysm they are doing away with shared citys which is a throw back to days of old which gives this old player hope open world PvP will thrive again.
Oh and getting ganked is part of PvP realms, it certainly made me a better player and more aware of my limitations, if people dont like it then they should stick to PvE or RP.
@pitrelli – no, I totally understand what your saying. I’m totally DEATH TO THE HORDE too… but yah, you are missing our point entirely – I’m not going to take time out of my day to fly to a lowbie area just to “drill healthy respect for the opposing faction into them early”… killing a player more than 4-5 levels below you isn’t challenging, doesn’t take skill, and seems a waste of time not only for the person GANKING the lowbie, but to the lowbie themselves.
I like PVP when it is, IN FACT.. PERSON v. PERSON… ie. denoting to parties that can attack and defend themselves with SOME possibility of victory for both parties… ganking NOOBS in STV isn’t a fair fight and is basically a high-level getting their rocks off feeling the power rush because they, “played the higher level toon a BIT longer that the other person”.
I like fair fights… no one watches lopsided sporting events because it isn’t entertaining… the skill involved to thrash someone that low-level is laughable at best. Ganking players MANY levels below you, camping their body, etc etc… that isn’t PVP, that is being a dick.
Also, the point of my post, (and the posts over at Azure Shadows, The Noisy Rogue, Daughter of Ravenholdt), isn’t entirely about the ACT of ganking, but also the fact that a mouthpiece for the rogue community is perpetuating the “ROGUES = GANK OMGHATE” by encouraging this pathetic behavior.
I just cant understand why people dont like the tag of ‘Ganker’ its great that the class is feared, it is after all supposed to be a master assassin. Again I have commented on another post and said about this fair fight stuff. Whats fair? Is it fair to ‘gank’ a newly levelled 80 if you are maxed out on gear yourself? Or the other side is it fair to ‘gank’ higher levelled players if you have BoA items coming out your ears?
I just see people complaining that arent even on PvP servers and all I’m saying is ‘its the way it was and its the way it will always be’.
but Im arguing the pint that there isnt anything wrong with ganking noobs as well, alls fair in love and war etc etc. Sure it may not be classed as ‘nice’ but hey they are the opposite faction.
Im not condoning people who just spend their nights going out their way to grieve people but Im sorry if you are asking if I have killed low level people then yeah any time I see them. Im on a PvP realm and thats life. I dont sit there saying ‘ oh that horde toon is only level x’ Im not interested in what level he is he is an enemy and I’ll kill or attempt to kill him regardless of level.
‘Unfortunately, I think alot of people, (including myself) stay away from these for just this reason of lowbie killing’
so why comment on something which doesnt effect you personally? So what if people cry about it and poopoo rogues as Gankers. Each player is different. PvP realms are set up specifically for players who enjoy being under more pressure, with the added danger of being attacked it just makes the game more exciting. If that includes a paladin killing me with one exorcism or a rogue one hit ambushing me then so be it. Its a game *shrug*
I guess my question, (and a question alot of people ask of people who do this), is why even do it? What is the motivation behind “ganking a noob?” I mean, if you are just looking for a fast, easy thrill kill, I suggest going up to Stockade in SW and running through there, slaughtering the bunch of them to satisfy the bloodlust. Of course, with that, you would of course get lots of cloth drops and silver and such, so that would be kinda productive.
I think, however, we are both referring to two different things. I am referring to griefing a noob, going to a low lever area and purposefully LOOKING for people to hound and annoy. You are referring to a more situational issue, finding oneself faced with the choice of whether or not to kill a discovered lowbie on your travels. Is it really that different… well, that is where are opinions differ I guess, because I still think it is pretty pointless to kill a lowbie just because he’s a lowbie. CAMPING a lowbie is griefing, and what we are discussing but not what I think you are talking about. You are defending world PVP, which I have no problem with, (in fact, would like to see more of).
And unfortunately, this idea does affect ALL rogues. When Mr. Christian opens his mouth and decides that, for his readers in the rogue community, a call to arms to slaughter any noob in sight is a necessity, it reflects badly on a class that is already griefed as the bullies of Azeroth. I personally think he should have saved himself and all of us a bunch of grief and wrote an article about going out and burning ants in the sandlot with a magnifying glass. It’s the same, anti-social behavior he is trying to condone, (I love how people hide behind the anonymous aspect of a video game to get their deviant jollies), and while it has the same emotional depth of ganking lowbies in a videogame, at least you would get some fresh air
come on man point out to me where he says in his article go to lowbie areas and go hunting for noobs and corpse camp them??!…….oh right he doesnt say that! He does in fact say ‘Don’t neglect to kill lower-level players ‘ and your reading into it want you want. He could very well do what I do and kill any person on sight.
If im gonna be honest I’d say its a split of 50/50 on the comments with people even saying they have fond memorys of getting ganked (probably the people actually playing on PvP realms) and others just choosing to take from what he wrote what will fit their agenda or QQs (PvE folks).
Its someones opinion and you dont agree with it, fair enough. But come on one article is going to ruin Rogues rep? Rogues dont have a rep to ruin they are known as pvp specialists and indeed ‘gankers’. On my realm I have more trouble from hunters or mages personally.
I’m not sure how else to read “don’t neglect to kill lower level players”? Key words being “kill” and “lower level players”…. >.>
As I stated in my blog post,if Mr. Christian did not intend for his statement to be interpreted at face value by the WoW community, he should have chosen his words a bit more carefully, instead of feeling it necessary to clumsily backpedal in the comments section.
As far as ruining rep? No, I doubt very much one article is going to ruin our less than pristine reputation, but it certainly doesn’t help to decrease our overall class perception. It isn’t just ganking, it’s the overall idea that people who play rogues are almost always social deviants, who are going to gank you first chance they get and ninja your loots or afk in raid… a perception that is not helped by this type of idiotic post from a WoW.com blogger. You and I both know this is usually the exception to the norm, (I would like to think most rogue players are well-adjusted, social people), but articles like this only serve to widen and further ingrain that perception.
Are rogues the only ones who do this? Well, of course not! But it doesn’t take much observation to realize the amount of players out there that attribute rogues to this type of behavior, as evidenced by the outpouring of rogue hatred at the first mention of a rogue blogger encouraging rogue ganking.
*sigh* you win. I give up………….
oops never answered your question
‘I guess my question, (and a question alot of people ask of people who do this), is why even do it?’
This has various answers
-Because I can
-because if the shoe was on the other foot then I’d be the victim
-They are the enemy
-They look better dead, almost like the are sleeping… peaceful if you will
To be honest I pay my money and just do what the hell I want within the rules but not rules made up by people that think there is honor in playing a video game.
I’m just saying that there are rogues in the community that are upset, and we feel rightly so. And I don’t think we are upset at PVP-server rogues because it’s your prerogative to play in the fashion Blizzard has allowed you to play. We ARE upset with this WoW.com blogger announcing to the world a bounty on low-level pelts. I’m not saying you are wrong in wanting world PVP, I mean, that is part of the game, and I hope there are more opportunities for it in Cataclysm, as your post indicates. I think there are some “carebears” out there that hoping to see world PVP that is more balanced are questioning the motivations behind this type of behavior is all.
I guess this is just an example of the inconsolable gap between the carebears (PVE-realms) and the gankers (PVP-realms); not wrong, just different. I’m going to RSS your blog; NOT to grief ya or to argue all your points – just good to read opposing/different POV once in awhile
haha yeah I recognise that its more a difference in playstle and mindset between us than anything else. I still value yours and others opinions on the matter, I just dont think it can be as clean cut.
What? you never had me on RSS before ?! Come on my pvp realm so I can gank ya
LOL! Yup, we will agree to disagree
OMG! /gasp! I didn’t know not RSS feeding people could be so dangerous!
LOL, yah, I have to say though, all that we said about the subject, there is something to say about someone who leveled up on a PVP realm. I can’t even imagine the patience and effort beyond the usual gameplay of a PVE realm it would take… and all the PVP practice would ensure an easy kill for you if I were to show up I’m sure
You’re absolutely right when you mention that the article was pointed on purpose. I mix a few different ideas into my ideal concept of ‘rogue’, and one of those is the ‘assassin’. I spend most of my time talking about PvE and how to top the damage meters, but that completely leaves out an entire aspect of the class. Like it or not, stealth itself implies ganking (surprising opponents with force).
I look at ganking as a blitzkrieg instead of killing lowbies. There’s nothing wrong with killing low level players, but I’m also not saying ‘avoid level 80 players’. I mentioned that we should kill lowbies TOO, not solely. The fact is that without a healthy amount of respect and fear between the factions, we may as well be playing World of PvE Craft.
Rogues aren’t holy or virtuous. Look at where they put our trainers in major cities: the shadows. Look at the names of our abilities: Murder and Dirty Tricks. Look at the mechanics of our class: stealth and ambushes. We are known as gankers because we approach unexpected, and players feel cheated that we surprise them. I have no problem perpetuating that ideal if it keeps the blood flowing from the Alliance and Horde.
… and AGAIN I’ll say it… I have NO problem with ganking a character of comparable level. I think all to often we “carebears” are made out like we abhor PVP, which in most cases just simply ISN’T the case. I TOTALLY agree that rogue class mechanics are slanted towards sneaky surprise attacks, and I have no issues with trying to keep “the blood flowing from the Alliance and Horde,” but the whole point of my reaction was to question your methods of making it happen, (ie. specifically ROFLPWNING lowbies).
What I and alot of other rogues took offense to was the fact that a person who has been put forth as a principal voicepiece of the rogue population was calling out a “hit” on defenseless opponents worldwide. I was/am one of many rogues out here on the interwebs that feel your comment put forth a perception of an ignorance that not all rogues attribute to, and only served to throw gas on the already raging rogue hate-fire.
Murder, Dirty Tricks, etc., do they make us awesome? OF COURSE they do, but my argument is that they only make us awesome when we can use them on a balanced, (albeit hopefully SURPRISINGLY one-sided), battlefield between opponents who can defend themselves to a certain extent. You know… when SKILL might be involved?!? Using these abilities on lower-level players do NOT make us awesome, they make us lame; the equivalents of bullies on the digital playground.
I question what kind of honor there is in this type of behavior, and therein lies the issue: PVP and PVE realm players simply do not see eye-to-eye on this issue, (see the 15-odd comments before yours between myself and Pitrelli as proof), therefore, you will continue to stay on THAT side of the playground and we will stay on ours, and we will continue to agree to disagree on this subject.
I do, however, want to thank you for taking the time to comment. I understand that, as the author, you may or may not have meant for that to be the main point of your blog post, but the perception of a single word or phrase can EASILY shift the focus of an entire arguement, and I think that is exactly what happened. I agree with/enjoy 99% of what you write as a regular reader of Encrypted Text, but it was that other 1% that I think alot of us could have done without.
On a happier note, since our little digital spat more than a month ago, Pitrelli and I called a truce and now enjoy each others blogs, so peace can be had between players like us… we just can’t play WoW together >.<
haha indeed.
I still think the difference ultimately is PvE and PvP realm mentality here. Having rerolled a druid healer recently (level 27 atm) Im killed an average of 3 times per night by level 80 players (usually hunters and paladins) but in honesty it just doesnt effect me I run back to my corpse scout the area then revive myself.
Perhaps one of the more annoying things about getting one shotted by a rogue is you dont see it comming.
Oh and keep an eye on my blog once cataclysm hits, I’ll be documenting some world pvp (both lowbie and level 80) with my freshly rolled Worgen Rogue – probably just screenshots. And yes I’m the kind of player who attacks people 10+ levels above me as well as lower toons, Im a kill on sight kind of guy.
Yes, I think that ultimately the reason rogues get a bad reputation with this is exactly the reason you gave: you don’t see it coming. Nothing pisses people off more than suddenly being dead… kinda like spontaneous combustion IRL ;D
I will most certainly be watching your blog! I think with some of the changes that are upcoming, there will DEFINITELY be more opportunity for World PVP
@ Kaelynn of Azure Shadows: Thanks for the linkback Kaelynn, a sad commentary that the very person who serves as a mouthpiece for the rogue class feels the need to stir the rogue hatred >:P
@ Daraia of DoRHM: Yes, he did JUST that! I think it sad too that he was completely unapologetic in his comments to his readers after the fact – to him, THIS IS a part of rogue culture, and I am abhorred to be considered in the same category as players like that. A sad reality